To always have that pursuit of knowledge, to know that they've never done.

Learning to know that more.

There's one that there is more than one way to do something.

Style is more than just the clothes you wear.

It's the essence of who you are, and it's in everything you do.

Discover it here and unleash your style beyond what you wear.

Welcome back to another episode of House of Style.

I'm your host, Grant Alexander, and today we're joined by a culinary innovator whose passion for pasta is distinctive.

Style and mustache have made him a standout in the gastronomic world, and not just because he's appeared on Bravo's Top Chef or a host of Food Network competitions like Chopped and Tournament of Champions.

But before we dive into today's exciting episode, let's take a moment for some calls to action.

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Now let's get to the real reason why we're here.

I am so excited to introduce our guest chef, Joe Sasto.

From cooking alongside his mother to captivating audiences on Top Chef, Joe's journey is a testament to how embracing your passion and unique style could lead to extraordinary success.

We'll explore how his experiences shaped his culinary style, his rise to fame on television, and how he continues to innovate in the culinary scene.

So, Joe, welcome to House of Style.

I'm excited to have you here.

Thank you for having me.

What a wonderful introduction.

I'm.

You know, you deserve it.

I've been watching you for quite some time on tv.

I've.

Top Chef, your first not all stars.

The original one was probably six, seven years ago now.

Even we filmed that.

2017.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that's.

That's a lot.

We're growing on time on that one.

You're making me feel old.

Don't feel old.

But you're doing awesome things.

And I want people to kind of understand there are a lot of things in your path, in your journey that I think will resonate with a lot of people.

Like, and we'll get into in a second, but not going to culinary school, you know, making decisions like that and how you Go about opening a restaurant and taking your career, you know, in such a cutthroat industry, I think is really interesting.

And I think viewers and listeners are going to find it awesome as well.

So let's get into it.

We'll start easy.

And let's go early on.

What?

Share your earliest memories of cooking.

Earliest memories of cooking.

You know, one of the first things, the earliest memory of the thing, I think I was allowed to cook on my own.

Like, we're talking on the stove, hot heat, using fire.

And, you know, growing up in an Italian household, you think it was like, pasta.

This is like, a version of pasta that I think a lot of, like, true Italians might roll their eyes at.

But we're Italian Americans.

Sure.

So that's okay.

It was Hamburger Helper.

And that was, like, the first thing I was allowed to, like, use the fire.

Like, my mom was still in the kitchen, but, like, we ate a lot of Hamburger Helper growing up.

That was like a crutch of my mom's.

And I think it was cuz, like, you know, you're cooking for four boys.

My dad and three brothers, or my dad and three kids.

I had two younger brothers.

And so, you know, you think something that is hearty can feed the whole family, but also, like, allows for a little creativity.

And so, like, I was already, like, watching my mom cook.

I was at her side.

I was like, very big on watching food TV and, like, stand and stir and a lot of these early, like, Food Network shows.

And so, like, I saw my mom had this big, like, turntable, carousel, Lazy Susan.

It was like a triple stacker of all the spices and dried herbs.

Yeah.

And everything in the cabinet.

And so, like, yes, it would be Hamburger Helper, but then I would, like, reach in there and, like, start adding my own spices.

At what age were you adding your own spices?

Oh, I gotta say, this was probably like, you know, I'm so bad at, like, with kids ages because, like, I don't have kids.

I don't interact with kids.

And so it's like I could see a kid and be like, oh, my God, they're like 6 or they're 2 or 10.

And I have no idea.

That all looks the same.

Same to me.

So I want to say I was maybe like 8 or 10.

All right.

Like, I was like, I was young.

I was a youngin.

And I was like, you know, reaching for the spices, doing the Hamburger Helper, adding my own, like, flavor combinations.

I would say most of the time it was edible.

I remember at least one time where, like, I had gone overboard on the spices, and it was like one of those, like, take a bite moments.

And my mom was like, this is really great.

Good job.

And we didn't eat that one for dinner.

It happens.

It happens.

At what point did you realize cooking is what you want to do?

Oh, gosh.

I mean, I feel like I'm very fortunate, and I've said this before, and it's like people spend their whole lives trying to figure out what they want to do when they grow up.

And I feel grateful and fortunate that I knew very early on what I wanted to do when I grew up, and now I get to do it.

That's really cool.

And that's not something a lot of people get to say.

There's not a lot of something a lot of people get to do.

And I'm able to do that not only as a career, it's rewarding, it's sustaining, and it allows me to connect with people.

And food kind of has that power and gives me that, that.

That satisfaction.

And so I knew very early on I can't put, like, a time or date or stamp or moment to it, but I knew I was, like, always enthralled by this idea of, like, hospitality and taking care of others.

Like, I remember I used to play, like, pretend hotel owner, front desk manager with my dad in, like, our basement, in our toy area.

And I'd, like, have like, a little fake, like, computer, like, keyboard thing.

And, like, my dad or parents would come, like, check in, and I'd be like the front desk person.

It was like, you know, a little kid.

Yeah.

But I was like, I wanted to, like, be able to take care of people and host people and, like, provide an experience for them.

Right.

And so I think it was like something very, very early on that just, like, resonated with me and allowed me to, like, have that connection with others.

That's super fun.

So what about your style of cooking?

Was that something that was early on that you're like, I'm going to cook Italian, I'm going to do pasta, I'm going to do it in this way, or was that something that developed a little later on?

I think my style for cooking developed, really came to my own during Top Chef the first time, because up until that point I had worked at all these really high end restaurants, fine dining, two, three Michelin star restaurants.

But I had always been like the number two or the number three in charge.

Yeah.

And so I was kind of cooking other people's food.

I knew all these techniques I had a huge bag of tricks that I would carry around with me and get to pull out and show off and, like, look what I could do.

But, like, nothing I was doing was ever like my own.

And so it wasn't until Top Chef, where you're putting all these really wild scenarios that you're forced to create things that you wouldn't normally create, and you don't have anyone else telling you, no, that's not a good idea.

Right.

No, you don't have enough time for that, or, no, you can't do that.

It's just you against yourself.

Sure.

And so it wasn't until those moments that I really, like, figured out what my style was, what mattered the most to me that I wanted to put on a plate, how I wanted to express myself through food.

Yeah.

Given all of these constraints.

And so it was like kind of that crazy, wild situation of only having 45 minutes and cooking on a mountaintop or while paragliding down to the base.

And so it's like, that is what helped me figure out, like, hey, what is going to be your style, your calling, your.

Your voice in the culinary world?

That's.

And as a viewer, I.

I think I mentioned I'm a Top Chef fan, and I think one of the things I remember from your season, it's like, I could tell you were a different chef in person by the end of the season.

I think you definitely started off a little timid, and, like, by the end, you're like, I'm making pasta.

And I think people could see that along the way.

So with.

With what you're saying, that makes total sense.

Do you agree with that?

Do you felt like you started off a little shy or timid?

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I think.

I think in the beginning, I was still trying to cook someone else's food, and it took, like, a few challenges and a few times being on the bottom and a few times of almost being eliminated to realize, like, what was working well was the things that I was cooking from my heart.

Yeah.

For my soul, from my mind, and kind of creating that style and figuring out my style versus replicating dishes that I had done in a restaurant or had done on a menu somewhere before.

Yeah.

Where I think now you fast forward.

And my style is very apparent in the way that I create food, the way that I write menus, the way that I edit together videos.

There's a very unique Joe Sapphire of style of cooking and style of food.

But that was kind of like the origin story of it all, I think really came from that time on Top Chef.

And it's definitely evolved from then.

It's not the same that it was during that time, but I think it was during that time that I really started to find my own style.

Yeah, that's awesome.

So going back a little bit in how you got into all those restaurants, I think this is really interesting because you forewent culinary school, which is the traditional path for, I assume, most chefs.

What.

Why did you make that decision?

And kind of, how did balancing.

Because you were cooking then while studying too.

So how did, like, you were still cooking.

How did that all play into how you eventually landed your first.

First role?

Yeah, a lot to unpack there.

Where initially I wanted to go to culinary school, that was my plan after high school, go to culinary school and start working restaurants because I knew I wanted to be a chef.

And at the time, being a chef was not, like, the most glorious career path.

And my parents, you know, being pretty traditional in the sense, were like, you know, go to university, get your bachelor's degree, and if you still want to cook, you could try, but at least you have something to fall back on, which is, like, funny nowadays where, you know, bachelor degrees, not something people fall back on.

They're something you want to pursue because you have a plan in mind.

But I didn't have.

Have a plan.

I was like.

My backup plan was a bachelor's degree.

And so I went to UC Davis.

I studied communications, and any other communication major out there knows that you have a lot of free time.

This guy.

There's a lot of free time on you.

Oh, yeah.

And so I did, you know what I.

What I love doing?

I.

I cooked.

And so I got a job on campus at, like, our eatery.

I was cooking in our fraternity house for, like, all of our dinners and, like, Mother's Day and Father's Day and barbecues and all these things.

And so, like, I was cooking, staying busy, getting to do what I.

What I loved, while also, you know, getting my degree in communications.

And so immediately upon graduation, everyone that else that I knew was, like, moving to San Francisco and, like, getting jobs in sales and tech and, like, doing things that were paid salaries and, like, real start of professions and start of careers.

And I was like, okay, well, I don't want to do that.

I want to go work in a restaurant.

And at the time, I didn't really know how the industry worked.

I didn't know how you get into a restaurant.

I applied to some places, San Francisco.

No one was calling me back.

It was like, back Then it was.

It was really hard to get a job in a good restaurant.

There was, you know, it was a different time where everybody wanted to do it, and, you know, there wasn't as many cooks.

I guess there was an overflow of cooks compared to now.

And so I ended up taking a job through a friend of a friend in a small mountain town in Northern California and did that for about a year before transitioning to the city and, like, kind of getting my feet wet in the industry.

Did that year help you land the city job?

It did, it did.

It was, you know, I.

It was.

We were opening this huge project, this huge restaurant in, like, this little town that really didn't need that.

And so I got to see a lot of the things you're not supposed to do when running and opening a.

Restaurant, which is helpful, which was helpful, super helpful.

You know, ways not to make chicken stock, not to make demi.

Like, a lot of shortcuts were used.

And I was like, this doesn't seem right, but at least I'm seeing, like, how.

How, like, you would do this in not ideal scenario.

But I was like, you know, it made that itch and that.

That the desire to learn, even grow more, because I wanted to learn the right way how to do it.

I wanted to see how, like, traditional French sauces were actually made and, like, how.

How fish were butchered, like, properly and like, all these things.

And so it was through somebody that, you know, an older chef that was there in the restaurant with me kind of like saw and took me under his wing and, you know, did.

Did what I probably wouldn't recommend other people to do, but he was like, hey, let's lie on your resume.

Let's say that you worked all of these places.

You could put, like, my phone number, my house number, my work pager as all the numbers.

And if anyone calls me, I'll say you worked for me.

I don't know if anyone actually called him, but it got me.

Got me a job in one of, like, Michael Mina's restaurants, who's like, you know, Michelin star chef, like, very, very well known.

Great start.

Open the door.

And then, you know, it all paid off.

I knew I was in the right place at the right time, where I think it was six months after I started, I went from line cook to junior sous chef, and I was like, on the trajectory.

What do you think made it that quick?

Like, what was it in six months that they were like, oh, shit, he's got to.

He's got to be.

Have a bigger Role.

I think it's a combination of things.

And I see it myself now at this point in my career where I could be around a young cook and know within the first couple of minutes if they have it.

It being that thing like that desire to always want to be better, to make each day better than the day before, to always have that pursuit of knowledge, to know that they've never done, learning to know that more.

There's one that there is more than one way to do something.

Yeah.

And I think that that innate desire, so it can't be taught.

It has to be something inside.

And so, you know, I've heard like Thomas Keller, who's, you know, world renowned chef in the French laundry and per se, and you know how he said he looks for cooks that always want to learn, not that need to learn how to cook, because he could teach anyone how to dice an onion, he could teach someone how to make a sauce, but he can't teach you that ability to want to learn.

And I had that, that innate desire that, like, always want to be better.

I wanted to put my head down.

I was willing to put in the hours.

You know, it was a very different time where sacrifice paid off.

You were allowed to work 14, 15, 16 hour days.

You were allowed to come in on your days off.

You're allowed to work unpaid.

And that was just because you wanted to learn and see new things.

And like, you know, a lot of those modern labor laws were kind of like, looked at the other way.

And, you know, not saying that was a better time, but it was a different time.

And having the opportunity to get to do all of that really kind of helped me excel quickly.

Do you think most of the top chefs and the people cooking now and getting, whether it's, you know, celebrity gigs or opening fantastic restaurants, is it that same kind of innate drive in them?

Or are there some people that are just so talented that they're, you know, the best right out of school or whatever it is, and naturally talented?

That's a good question.

I think it goes.

I think it's.

It could be a combination of both.

I would say you, you need a good blend of the two.

Like, can you kind of create that perfect marriage?

Maggot, that perfect marriage, like that little magic moment where it's like just enough of that desire, just enough of that skill, where if you have so much skill, there's, like, hubris to that, you know, where you may not succeed because you think you're so good.

You need to have that humility.

You need to have that humbleness, and then the other way, where it's like, just because you want to learn cooking stuff for everyone, right?

And I've met some really, really, like, passionate people that really want to try and really want to learn, but cooking's not for you.

Sure, buddy.

You know, do this in your spare time.

This is not the job that, you know, you dedicate your life to.

It's just you don't.

You don' you don't kind of have that.

The.

The palette for it.

And so I think you find that perfect combination of those two traits, and that really helps anyone succeed.

And I think that kind of applies to any industry.

Like, we're talking culinary, right?

But talent and passion are the two driving forces between any successful individual.

Yeah, totally agree with that.

It's something we talk about as a style.

Like, passion is a form of style.

And so is talent and talent something you work on.

I'm curious how you learned all these techniques, because even before you landed under Michael Mina and all the other, you know, acclaimed chefs you have worked with, how did you learn?

Because was was YouTube.

YouTube couldn't have been kicking.

Yeah, it couldn't have been kicking.

Like, it was.

No.

Was it Food Network?

Was it.

Was it just.

What was it?

Trial and error?

It's combination of cookbooks.

You know, cookbooks are a great source of knowledge, like, despite what people might think.

Or it's mostly just pictures.

Like, if you actually pick up good books and you read them, wealth of knowledge and techniques in there.

A lot of Food Network back in the early staninster days, they're like, why?

That was my, like, intro to Culinary school where, like, the early Food Network shows.

I feel like Alton Brown had was one of my, like, he seems so smart, and he's one of the only chefs still that I have not worked with really, like, in all of, like, my Food Network, because he's not associated with network anymore.

So, like, Ella shows, I might do with them.

I'm not going to run into Alton, and I just haven't done any of the same festivals or any of the same appearances.

And he's like, he's still at the top of my list.

Like, there's no one I would really fanboy out over except for, like, Alton.

I'd be like, oh, my God.

I like, I watched Good Eats on repeat.

Oh, yeah.

Like, I learned.

I still like so many things that I do daily.

I think about the Good Eats episode where I learned that.

I think the number one thing that I always tell everyone is, like, the eggs if your eggs are done in the pan, they're going to be overcooked by the time they get to the plate.

And that's something I like, distinctly remember from a Good Eats Egg episode, and that I still, every day when I make eggs, they have to undercook them in the pan, so that way they're proper by the time they go to the plate.

That's awesome.

I learned that from a Gordon Ramsay episode I watched where he was yelling at somebody.

He was like.

And he was yelling the same thing.

If it's already done, it's terrible.

It's terrible.

It's not going to be about that all the time.

So you've worked under some pretty awesome chefs.

How did working with them influence your style as it is now?

You know, I have worked some really incredibly talented chefs and people, and I find myself in a unique position where I see a lot of these other documentaries or biographies or, you know, how other chefs have come to light.

And there's usually, like, that one mentor or a number of mentors that, like, they had that.

That figure in their career that really helped guide and define them and find their style and define everything about them.

And kind of, you know, you watch chef's table or you watch any of these things, and it's like, there's always that father figure or mother figure in their life that really helped drive their.

Their culinary style or voice.

I never really had that.

You know, I worked for a lot of really talented people.

No one that I really grew super close with, no one that I really, like, looked up to is like, this is the ultimate authority on anything.

But a lot of people had just influenced me along the way.

Really good leaders, really poor leaders, really strong leaders, really weak leaders.

Kind of like, I saw a good range, and I think I was able to, through that process, pick and choose my favorite styles of leadership, my favorite styles of cooking, my favorite styles of managing, my favorite styles of kind of writing menus and putting together ingredients.

And, like, I was able to kind of fuse my own favorites of everything.

And I think I still do that with my recipes today.

Even where if I'm looking for recipe on some people, like, how do you develop a recipe?

How do you come up with something new?

And it's like, a lot of times I'll just cook, but if I really want to, like, make a recipe that I've never done before, I look at five or six different ones on Google.

Some people I know, some people I don't know, and I'll pick my favorite parts of all of them.

Oh, I really like this idea with the egg yolks.

Oh, that's cool.

Like, mix of flowers.

Oh, this is a really interesting way to bake it.

Oh, this person did it covered.

This person did it uncovered.

I'm going to try both and see which one I like better, you know?

Yeah.

So there's a lot of that, like, influence of style from a lot of other people that allowed me to then, like, fuse and create and choose my own.

That's really cool.

So how would you describe your cooking style?

I.

I think the.

The first and foremost, I always like to say my cooking style is fun.

I think food and eating and cooking should be fun.

Absolutely.

Primarily, I mean, obviously, delicious.

We all want delicious food, but it should be fun.

There should be a sense of nostalgia to it.

I always like to think a lot of my dishes and food don't look like anything you've ever had before, but when you eat them, they remind you of something you may have had before.

And so it's like these past ideas, these past dishes, these past food memories brought back in a new light, repackaged in a new way.

And so I always like to think that's my style.

I really like to lean heavily on vegetables, kind of treat a vegetable like an expensive cut of meat or something like that.

I'm not huge on seafood.

Personally, I don't see a lot of seafood playing into my style at all.

But definitely vegetables, definitely meat.

And obviously pasta being a very, very prominent medium.

Yes.

You know, Jeff Morrow says that any sandwich can be a meal, and any meal can be a sandwich.

I think the same thing can be said about pasta.

Any dish can be pasta, and any pasta could be a dish.

What made you think handmade pasta?

That goes back to my time of quits.

So we.

We had pasta was prominent pasta restaurant menu.

I was on the pasta station.

That's where I learned primarily how to make pasta.

And when Michael Tusk, chef, came back from Italy, spent some time Bologna, learning all about handmade pasta.

And he came back, and we were using machines and rollers and all the things, and he learned the handmade process of tortellini.

And he was like, we're gonna do this on the menu.

It's gonna be a special dish.

We're gonna the only people in the city that do handmade tortellini.

And every day, that became, like, my obsession, my passion.

And like, that was that make or break moment where you would think, this is either gonna destroy you, making 18, 000 pieces of pasta a day all by hand or goodness, you're truly gonna fall in love with it, and this is gonna be your life's calling.

And, you know, fortunately, that's the direction I went in.

But I think that could have been that moment where, you know, it's you mentally, it's hard on your body.

You're standing there, you're hunched over the table.

You're rolling out sheet after sheet after sheet of pasta dough.

And then, you know, stressing out, trying to get all this pasta dough made, all these little tortellini made before service.

And, you know, it became a true labor of love that then.

Now I realize you don't have to make things by hand.

You could use modern machinery and work smarter, not harder.

But at the time, it was a good.

You know, it was a very prominent learning experience in my career.

Is there.

Can there be a significant difference in taste versus what you're using the machinery for versus handmade?

I've done.

I've.

No.

And.

But with.

With an asterisk.

With an asterisk.

If you know how to use the machine and, you know, understand what you're doing with the machine, you understand the dough, you understand the.

The sheeting process, you understand what a mozzarello is doing when you roll out this foliage versus you understand what the machine is doing when you roll out the spolia.

You could get the same exact result, but a lot of people don't.

And they do a lot of things that they've seen done over and over and over.

Just because they've seen someone else, do they think that's what needs to be done or how it should be done or what's not right?

Primarily, like folding the dough and then putting it back in the machine and then folding the dough and putting it back to the machine.

Like, why are you doing that?

You're crushing the life out of the dough.

You're removing all the texture from the outside.

So many things are that, I think, fundamentally wrong with that.

Yeah.

Versus, you roll it out in one go, and you have a proper sheet of pasta that you preformed.

Well, you started from the kneading process.

You got it to a good place for resting.

You could get the same exact result with a rolling pin as a machine, if you know what you're doing.

If you don't, then know they're going to be very different.

I mean, in your kind of assuming that everybody else is doing it right and you're watching somebody else, it only matters if they're doing it right or not.

Probably looking at the wrong person, they need to be looking at you.

They need to be looking at someone that knows what they're doing.

Right.

So in you.

During the pandemic, pivoted to classes in online courses.

How had.

How did that transition go?

Did you enjoy doing that?

How was the feedback from that?

Yeah, I mean, that was a really crazy time, obviously, as we all remember.

And it was.

It was actually like.

That was my.

I would say, like, saving grace for me personally.

During that time, so many friends of mine were losing their businesses, were losing their livelihoods, the restaurants.

Nobody could cook anymore.

We couldn't cook for people.

But it was this moment where I was able to, like, cook what I was wanted for myself, but post about it on social media, and then within hours, I would see other people making it again and tagging me and recreating it.

And it was this, like, aha.

Moment of, like, wow, I don't get to cook for others, but I could cook with others.

And so it went from, like, just posting recipes on Instagram to, like, hosting YouTube live streams, to doing, like, weekly classes to monthly classes to private classes and everything for.

I mean, I was making everything from chicken wings to fried fish and chips to pasta.

Sure.

To tiramisu and, like, the.

You know, I was running out of things to teach at this point because it was like, people wanted it all going on.

I just kept going on.

We're making cornbread and ribs and, like, the whole thing.

But it was, like, a really incredible time.

Despite everything going on in the world, that was gloomy and chaos and a downer.

Food was this, like, constant that everyone was able to come back to and rally around.

Yeah.

And so people were cooking at home that never cooked before.

People were getting in the kitchen, getting excited about food.

People are having things to look forward to again.

And so, like, yeah, I thought it was an amazing moment to be able to cook for.

Cook with others, because I wasn't cooking for them anymore.

So you finish those courses and, you know, pandemic ends, we open up, and you start doing more tv.

And was that a result of what you were doing online, or was it mostly from Top Chef and Top Chef All Stars?

I don't know.

I think it was a combination of the two.

I think doing those classes really got me comfortable.

Being in front of a camera.

Yeah.

And talking to people that weren't there.

You don't realize when you're doing tv, when you're doing live streams, you're a hundred percent acting like there's a hundred people in a room cheering you on.

Right.

But it's silent.

No one's laughing at your jokes.

No one is giving you feedback as to like, hey, you sounded weird or you look funny or, you know, and it's like the same thing happens when you're on tv.

It's a room full of people, but they're silent.

They're not responding to you when you make a funny comment.

They're not like applauding you when something.

Goes, well, that was hilarious.

Exactly.

And so getting that practice, live streaming and teaching classes, I think really set me up for success because moving from being in a restaurant and being in front of that and doing television, a whole different animal, a whole different ball game.

But, you know, fortunately I'd gotten an agent at that time.

We started really kind of like leaning heavily into media and like working with brands and doing more appearances.

And so that kind of then led to the world of television.

I did tournament champions for the first time those season three and did really well.

And that kind of like land landed and launched me into Guy's orbit.

Yeah.

Which then opened up a whole new set of doors.

He's been doing this a long time.

We were kind of chatting about this beforehand.

He seems like the coolest guy that does everything, has been around.

His kids are involved in everything.

What's working with him?

Like, I mean, incredible experience.

He's a great mentor, he's a great friend, he's a great advocate for, for everyone that kind of is around in his world.

You know, he's made it.

He's a main man.

Right.

And he wants to help set everyone else up.

Not only just his kids and his family, but like anyone that he comes in contact with that like he likes and he sees the potential and he wants to elevate them.

That's the whole point.

He, he does diners drives and dive stills because he wants to elevate these small businesses, tell people stories, give people the microphone that may not have it.

Sure to be able to start succeeding and to grow and to kind of like give them an opportunity that maybe they wouldn't have had had someone like him not come along.

And so it's been an incredible experience.

He's not only like so talented to watch work in front of the camera because if you've ever done any sort of podcast or interviewing or television, you know how hard it could be to do a stand up, to just stand and talk and like, it's amazing off the cu, he doesn't do voiceovers post production.

He nails it every time, all the time.

Gets Whatever needs to be said out in one or two takes and it's done and then move on to the next thing.

That's incredible.

Like the.

The talent.

And it's from experience.

Like, it's from experience.

That's.

It is.

There's so much talent that goes into that.

I think that's incredible.

And so getting to spend time with him one on one, you know, we filmed the show last summer, Best Bite in Town, which was like a D.

I was a dive.

Spin off.

And I got to host that show.

And he got to.

He spent a day with me on set and it was just the two of us and he was able to like, give me real time feedback.

As you're hosting, as you're tasting food, as you're talking to the camera and the lens and really kind of like you're hearing it from one of the best in the business.

That's invaluable on how to do it.

And how to become better and how to approach the whole process because, like, it's a totally different train of thought.

You're thinking about what to do with your hands, what to do with your feet to walk, how to.

How to hold your head, like keeping your posture right, Smiling, listening, engaging.

So many little things that you don't think about.

You watch these shows and you're like, I could judge food.

Oh, I want to go eat pancakes and talk about them on camera.

It's like, yeah, everyone wants to do that, but then you put them in front of it.

Right.

It's way harder and way more draining than you may think.

There was.

I forgot the name of the show, but it was basically the next Food Network star.

Yeah, that might have been.

That's where he started.

The guy started on that.

So that to me, watching that.

I watched the season where Christian was competing.

Yes, that was a good one.

It was great.

And when I saw him, because I had seen him actually compete a few weeks before I saw him on that, I was like, oh, this guy's great personality.

He seems like a lot of fun.

It's gotta be one thing cooking to.

Then you see him in front of the camera trying to do this little like 30 second commercial and everyone's tanking it.

It was fun, fascinating to watch.

Then you're like, wait, I just saw him and he was so good.

While cooking, judging and hosting is a completely different.

It's all about the sound bites.

It's all about talking incomplete thoughts.

Sometimes you need to repeat the question, but in like a non sound, like you're repeating the Question way.

I remember when we were filming Top Chef, the interviews very early on were hard for everyone because you had to talk in present tense.

And so we would shoot an interview.

And then now that applies to every.

Every day, every cooking show.

I mean, if you watch cooking competitions closely enough, the interviews are always shot after.

After.

Right.

They're never in real time.

I feel like it's cutting to real.

All reality shows are.

They're all shot after.

And so you have to speak like, I ran to the pantry and I grab this.

This is not I grabbed or I ran like, it's.

I'm running over to the pantry and I'm grabbing.

And so you have to talk in present tense.

Like, you're doing it then.

And if you can't do that, the interview, what would normally take an hour could take six.

And you're sitting there because you have to keep repeating it, and the producer will stop you and say, no, no, say it.

Say it in present.

Especially in present tense.

Oh, here's a fun one.

Have you ever messed something up and you're like, you.

You burn something and you have to go tell it in present tense, and you're just thinking like, oh, God damn, I burnt that already.

And you just have to be there.

I'm running to the pantry.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, there have been times where you screw up a dish entirely.

The judges ate you alive.

And then, like, you start the interview process, and they're like, so how excited?

Like, tell me why this is a winning dish.

And you both are looking at each other like, I hate you.

I know this is like, I know this is winning dish.

You know this isn't a winning dish.

And here we are.

I have to pretend.

Oh, man, I'm so excited to cook this dish.

Oh, it's gonna blow the judge's socks off.

And then it's like, yeah, that didn't happen.

That's awesome.

I've always kind of wondered.

I'm like, you're all talking.

Yeah, this has already happened.

It's rough.

It's rough when you lose.

Sure.

It's really fun when you win.

Oh, I'm sure.

How.

How do those high pressure environments help you as a chef?

And have they impacted your style at all?

Or does you just go in with your style and kind of that's it?

But, like, how does that high pressure environment affect you?

I think I definitely thrive in those high pressure environments where not everyone does it.

Really?

Kind of like, you know, they say pressure creates diamonds, and I definitely fall into that category of like, doing well under pressure, and it really building me up.

And I think that comes from even, like, my time working in these really high pressure environment kitchens.

Like, even before the world of competition and television, like, every day was the highest pressure you could imagine, because we were approaching every day, like, in the pursuit of perfection, the diners coming to eat.

Yes, we've made this dish a hundred times already, but it's their one and only time that they're going to get to have it.

It needs to be the best that we've ever put forward, regardless of what's going on in our lives outside of work, regardless of what happened earlier in the day, what's happening after.

And so you have to really focus on the moment and, like, strive to hold each other accountable, to do better than the day before.

And so it's.

That was high pressure environments that.

That really talented cooks and chefs thrive in in those really high end kitchens.

And for me, that translated to competition.

Yeah, I know a lot of really, really talented high end fine dining chefs that can't do competition because of the time constraints and the pressure.

So there's definitely like a catch 22 in that back and forth where it's like, some people need time to process things and to think about things and then get put in that environment.

And they can't just be given a random combination of ingredients and say, cook it in 20 minutes.

Right.

But I feel like the more time I have, the more I could screw things up, where it's like, I could go better.

Let me just cook from instinct.

Right.

And you enter like a flow state.

I get that.

I think as a parent and as a dad, when I'm cooking, I actually think I try to pretend I'm in high pressure.

Like, I'm in a competition.

There are a few times where I'll keep working, be like, oh, yeah, I'll start dinner soon.

I'm, you know, creep into when I should have already started or when I forget to defrost meat, which happens fairly often.

It's like, all right, you have 20 minutes.

What's in the pantry?

And you just go and like, go make.

Go, go, go.

That would be.

I can't imagine being in on some of those shows, because even if, I mean, it's supposed to be fun, ideally, I think about Tournament of Champions regularly.

It's one of my favorite shows currently on Food Network.

What is that show like?

It's crazy, to say the least.

It's even more stressful than I think people make it out to be.

Or you may make it out to be when you're washing it on your couch.

I mean, the stakes are incredibly high.

It's the best chefs currently competing all together in one place.

You're competing against someone like me who grew up watching Food Network.

You're competing against people that you look up to and that you watched growing up.

And here you are, like, on the same stage as them, competing against them, which is a whole nother, like, mind experience to, like, have to deal with that mentally.

But.

And then it's just traumatic in the sense that you start losing sleep leading up to the competition.

I start having, like, nightmares.

And my nightmares are always about running out of time.

Like, I don't finish it.

That makes sense.

That's like my.

That's my nightmare.

Like, I don't have enough time.

I had all these things going on.

I don't get on the plate, and I don't have anything to serve.

Think, you know, it's never happened to me.

I always have food to serve.

But that's like my worst case scenario because, like, you went all this way, you did all this work, got this far, you got on the stage, and then you don't have anything to serve.

That sucks.

Oh, yeah.

But, yeah, it's a wild experience.

And I think something, you know, talking about that, like that style and that flow state, we were, you know, my girlfriend Kate and I were just listening to, you know, like, Harry Mack, the freestyle rapper, and he's like, all over YouTube and he does, like, really crazy freestyle raps.

And he was talking about how, like, rappers in general, when they enter a flow state, they've done like, MRIs on.

On artists when they do that, and they turn off, like a prefrontal cortex that inhibits self judgment.

And so that way they're just able to flow.

They're able to create without any self.

Absolutely judgment, but they.

They almost like, black out in that process.

And I was like, that's wild, because that's what happens to us when we're cooking in these competitions.

The time goes by, and then the producers are like, what did you make?

And you're like, I don't know.

I blacked out.

Like, what did I make?

Like, remind me what did I just do?

Yeah.

And it's almost like, you know, as chefs, we.

We enter that same flow state where you're just cooking out of instinct.

You're not cooking out of thought or out of, like, what I should do.

And it's something that then, like, after the fact, you look back on, you're like, okay, that's what I did.

Wow.

That was crazy.

Wow, what a good idea.

Yeah.

You know, but it's like you.

It's a totally different mindset, competition cooking, than working in a restaurant or doing anything else you'll ever do.

Do you watch the episodes you're a part of?

Sometimes, yeah.

I definitely try to just from like, a.

A professional standpoint, to always want to get better on tv, to get better at talking, to get better at sound, like, creating, to get better at presenting myself.

I want to watch myself from that point, from that perspective.

But otherwise, it's like, it's hard to even find the time and to.

You know, sometimes it's dramatic where it's like, I'm a little annoyed that I lost or like, I was one point, like, you know, to relive those moments.

I sometimes choose not to watch them simply for those reasons.

Reasons.

I understand that.

That makes sense.

In what ways did appearing on those shows and continually being on Food Network, how has that helped shape your career in what you're doing now?

It's given me a really unique approach to thinking about food, to thinking about people, to think about brands, and to think about, like, my own personal career and story.

Because I had always, like, had this end goal of, like, I'm not successful until I own and open a restaurant.

And that's, like, what kept me in California for so long.

And I was like, I need to open a restaurant.

Like, I'm gonna open a restaurant.

And through success, through media, through television, through all these different avenues, I realized I don't need to open a restaurant to be successful, to be a chef.

There were so many times where I would go to an event or go to a dinner, go to something and, you know, be a journalist, a reporter, just a person.

They'd say, oh, you know, where's your restaurant?

And I'd be like, oh, I don't have one.

And you'd instantly, like, realize you lose their attention and, like, oh, you're not a real chef.

You don't have a restaurant.

And so, like, that was a really hard hurdle to overcome.

And now it's like, you know, on the back burner.

I still want to open something eventually when the timing is right, but I've realized that, like, that doesn't need to be the end goal anymore.

Sure.

And for so long, the same thing kind of applied to a cookbook.

I was putting off writing a cookbook because I was like, oh, I need to have a restaurant, or, oh, I'm not ready.

I'm not successful enough.

Only really successful chefs have cookbooks, and, oh, wow.

People want to make my recipes.

And I kind of, like, was doubting myself for such a long time until, you know, this whole wave of people recreating my food and wanting my recipes and, like, you know, wanting me to come teach them how to do things.

That gave me, like, the confidence.

It was like, hey, maybe now is a good time to write a book.

I don't need a rest.

A restaurant to write a book.

I.

I am successful.

I have made it enough to where people want what I have to offer.

I can teach.

I can be a shepherd of knowledge.

And so, like, that was another kind of, like, turning point of, like, and now, like, my book, we're.

That's awesome.

What's it called?

Can we get any details?

What details?

I.

I don't know if we.

The.

It's about breaking the rules.

Oh, I love about breaking the rules.

That's like, half my life.

Yes.

Yeah.

As it should be.

All of us.

Yeah.

Breaking all the rules when you're supposed.

When.

When it's okay.

When it's okay, you know?

So I didn't go to school for fashion or design.

I was a communication major, and I was a consultant right out of school for a couple years.

And when I got into fashion, the person that, you know, I worked with was kind of like, just learn all the rules so you can break whichever ones you decide you want to break.

I love that you said that.

That's my number one.

That's my rule for breaking the rules.

Exactly.

And, like, there are some that you should follow because it's.

It's what makes something look right or be constructed correctly.

There are some rules to follow, but from an aesthetic purpose, I break a lot of design rules.

And really, as I've come into, like, my own designs for G.

Alexander over the past not.

I wouldn't even say five years, really, the last two or three, I said, I'm not letting other people pick what the details are going to be on their custom outfit or whatever.

I'm designing for them.

It's my style, and I know that this will resonate, and I know people will like this.

F all those rules, I'm going with what I know is going to look great.

No, I think.

I think that that's how fashion, style, food, cuisine evolves, is.

It takes the people that learn the rules but are willing to bend them, to break them, to push them.

That really helps progress everything forward in each respective field.

Absolutely.

I love that.

How has Staying true to your style, especially now, you know, with this book next year, how is staying true to that style kind of helped your success?

You know, you keep getting.

And I want to get into Tanto's in a sec, but you keep going on tv, you're doing this cookbook.

You know, you have these projects that keep going.

How important is staying true to that style?

I think at this point, I'm lucky enough that, like, it comes naturally.

Like, I'm very, you know, pretty set in my ways.

I have, like, my set of values.

I have my set of beliefs.

I'm not going to sell myself short.

I'm not just going to take a paycheck just because someone's asking me to do something.

I'm very, like, value driven.

And I think that's, like, important to understand with.

With this, like, group of supporters.

Like, I hate using the word followers or fans, but they're, you know, they're a community.

There are people out there that support me, that allow me to do what I do, because I couldn't do that without all of them, for sure.

And so, like, every decision that I make, I think is.

Is partially driven with them in mind.

Like, is this going to be good for them?

How are they going to view it?

Are they going to get value out of it?

Is it just going to be something that only I get value out, of, which I think is, like, important sometimes.

But I think, you know, you need to be thinking about the bigger picture, because it's not just about me.

I'm not here just because of me.

I'm here because of everyone else around me, Everyone that supported me, everyone that has helped shape and influence me, everyone that has helped lift me up and kind of, like, given me this platform to do what I do.

And so I think a lot of that, like, staying true to my style, staying true to my values, my beliefs is all kind of, like, tied back to the people that helped get me here.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I really like that.

So using that in kind of entrepreneurship, you got a lot going on.

Talk to me about what your big project is right now.

I have a lot of noodles in the pot.

My biggest and most important noodle at the moment is Tontos Puff pasta chips.

The first and only original puff pasta chips.

We come in four flavors.

Marinara, pesto, cacio, pepe, and classico, which is like our sea salt and olive oil.

And it is exactly what it sounds like.

It's pasta in snacking form.

Flour and water are the first two ingredients made just like pasta.

But it undergoes a pretty unique proprietary process that puffs it almost like a chicharron.

It has this airy, light, crunchy, crispy texture.

And it's been an incredible experience co founding this company, building it from my apartment all the way now to.

We just landed our first grocery store this week, last week.

Congratulations.

And you'll find us in the sky on JetBlue starting next year.

Hell yeah.

Things are going very well for the puff pasta business.

That's awesome.

When did you start that?

And like, what was the process of taking that from, you know, creation in your apartment to getting it on JetBlue?

I.

I mean it's.

It would start as a happy accident in the restaurant, working with overcooked pasta, drying it out accidentally and frying it in the deep fryer.

Because I like fried things.

Who doesn't, right?

And so I saw this and I was like, you know, this is a combination of my two favorite food groups, pasta and nachos.

And so when I started going out into the world doing my own pop ups and my own dinners and events, that became like my signature calling card.

I was doing like an Italian Mexican nacho at the beginning and end of the meal, like a sweet one and a savory one.

And through that process, that's how I like met my now like best friend and business partner, Sean.

And he's an entrepreneur.

He has a very successful pet chew toy company.

And he was like, you know, have you ever thought about packing these?

I was like, I've thought about it, but I'm a chef, what do I know about that?

And he was like, well, you know, I'm looking for a new business to kind of like start.

Do you want to get in business together and see if we could do this?

And I was like, hell yeah, let's see what happens.

And it started as like a pop up online, like limited edition sneaker drops.

You're kind of going around that LA hype culture of like a post online only, limited available.

We'll tell you where that back door is.

Yeah.

And you know, we did it.

Went through the whole process, building it up, making a website, getting some packaging, some branding.

And I was doing everything out of my apartment, frying, making everything, packaging, mailing, shipping.

And we would do like 400 units a month.

In the first couple months it was like 12 minutes, 8 minutes, 6 minutes, sold out every time.

And then we made our money back.

You know, we put it, put a little bit of money in to get everything going, made our money back and looked at each other and do we want to keep doing this?

Is this really worth pursuing?

Or do we just say, that was nice?

What's next?

Yeah, we decided to go all in, get investors, build a supply chain, get a PR firm, get a proper design and branding team, build a brand identity.

And so many things that now, like, as an entrepreneur, I have gone through this, like, ideation and creation process multiple times now with different businesses and different ideas.

And I have a frozen pasta line named Rippy coming out next year, so that'll be in grocery stores.

And all of these different things that I think now is, like, this entrepreneurial spirit has become part of my style, and, like, I'm very much always looking for the next way to build something and create something new.

I think partially because I don't have a restaurant, I don't have a brick and mortar.

Sure.

And all of these things are ways for people to have a piece of me, to try some of me to see my style, to try my food without having a place to come do that.

Right.

And so I've kind of, like, created, I think, a new realm for chefs and for creatives where I felt like I was very much at the forefront of social media in the chef world.

And now I'm, like, one of the very few chefs kind of creating a packaged good that people can eat and enjoy.

And so it's like, it's a fun, crazy, incredibly difficult experience, but, you know, one that I'm constantly learning and looking to improve upon every day.

That is awesome.

It sounds like a different kind of playbook or cookbook.

Yes.

There you go.

You can use that one.

You know, I was going to ask if you felt like the entrepreneurship side, and because there are challenges, I say all the time, entrepreneurship can be a very lonely space when your idea is not out there and the world doesn't know about it, and you get a lot more no's than yeses.

That is tough.

And my question was, does that take away from your, you know, you want to be in the kitchen.

Like, your cooking is what also makes you happy.

Did you ever find yourself being like, I just want to go back to cooking this business stuff.

This isn't for me?

No.

You know, I think I'm able to balance the two because I get what you're saying.

And yes, the cooking is my happy place, and it kind of keeps me grounded and connected and rejuvenated.

And so there's so much stress in the entrepreneurial world.

And they say, especially in the.

I mean, I'm sure this applies to other industries.

But in.

Especially in the food and restaurant industry, the.

The more successful you become and the higher up you go, the less cooking you actually do.

Sure.

And so I think something that has really helped me stay connected with food has been competition, cooking and social media.

And so even though I'm at home and I'm making lunch or making dinner for Kate and I, filming it, cooking it, and having that be part of my brand identity, part of my brand voice and my style and everything that I do has allowed me to stay connected to food and connected to cooking.

And still, like, build your presence, build.

The business up, not lose that.

That connection and not lose that touch to food that.

That really got me in love with the whole business in the beginning.

Yeah.

That's really cool.

How do you see your kind of culinary style evolving or.

Or your new brand, your new cookbook and everything you have going on, this new realm evolving over time?

You know, I don't know how.

If I knew how it was evolving already, I feel like then I'd be able to push to get there even faster.

So it's kind of one of those, like, I'm very much go with the flow.

Yeah.

Kind of person.

Yes.

I plan.

Yes.

I'm organized and, you know, I have.

I have a schedule and all those things, but I'm like, I'm very much.

Don't overthink it.

Yeah.

Let's just see what happens.

Don't worry about the past or the future.

Focus on the present.

Yeah.

And so it's hard.

It's something props up you.

That's what.

That's when you evolve and you adapt.

And I think that's what I've always been good at.

Yeah.

Is when something happens, how you approach and attack and resolve that issue or that roadblock or that thing that has come up versus worrying about it before it's even there.

Yeah.

I love that.

And so I think instead of looking at it from like a What's next?

What are your goals moving forward for yourself?

Doesn't have to be for the brand.

Could be for you, for you.

Personally, professionally, I definitely still want.

I want a brick and mortar of people place for people to come eat my food.

Ideally some sort of fast, casual, multiple locations.

So it's not just in one place.

You know, I want to host a show to be able to share stories, share food, bring people together.

And then obviously, I want to see, like, tantos and Rippy just continue to grow and become, like household names.

Because it's always one of those things where it's like, Everybody knows Doritos, Cheetos, and Fritos.

Today is the day that they remember they learned about Tontos.

It blew my mind to learn that there weren't already puffed pasta chips.

Hopefully will not be the last.

You know, it will catch on and you know, and talk about end goals.

Frito lay you out there listening.

You want to give us an offer and speed up the next five years?

We're here.

There you go.

We'll hit up.

We'll make sure to tag Frito.

We'll get them.

I think, you know, I really like the way you've went about it, because I feel like, from the chefs I know and have spoken with, whether on the podcast or personal, a lot of them battle the time in the kitchen in their brick and mortar versus wanting to be with family or want to do, oh, I don't have time for tv.

I don't have time for social media.

You've kind of gone about it backwards and built up the rest of it.

You can go and do brick and mortar anytime you want.

Yes.

And I think that's definitely intentional, but also lucky that I'm able.

Was able to go that route, because a lot of times you have to do the brick and mortar first.

But I think I found myself at the right place at the right time, surrounded by the right people to be able to have the right mindset and the right drive and passion.

Because it's like, yes, in this day and age, it's easy for the next generation or anybody out there that's coming into this world to be like that instant gratification.

Oh, I want a million followers.

I want to be success.

I want this or I want that, but forget that.

Like, I spent 10 years, 10 plus years missing every holiday, missing every birthday, missing every weekend, putting in all of that time, not having days off in order to get to this point.

And so that it's not easily or it's easily overlooked, but an important part of my journey and my story and what's helped get me to where I'm at today.

Yeah, I think for so many success stories, people just see the success and they don't.

They can't even fathom what goes into.

All the sacrifice that it took to get that.

Because there's so much sacrifice, especially in the restaurant industry, because it's little things.

You know, for a while, I was working weddings, and you're giving up weekends, and when the business started growing on the wedding side, you're giving up a lot of weekends.

And that was really tough.

And I Had to decide if I was going to continue doing that.

And that's just a handful of weddings.

I can't imagine doing that for 10 years.

And every single holiday.

Because it's.

It's holidays.

It's weekend.

Like those nights that you're supposed to be out with your friends, those Friday nights, that's when you're supposed to be out with everybody and you are working.

Working.

Cooking for everybody that's going out.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

I mean, I lost.

I lost a lot of friendships.

I made a lot of sacrifices, but, you know, it's allowed me to be where I'm at today.

Yeah.

What advice would you give aspiring cooks, aspiring entrepreneurs, whether in the culinary industry or not?

I would definitely say, like, realize that there's more than one way to do things.

To have that open mindset, to have that desire to always be better and to learn from others and surround yourself with others that don't necessarily see or know the same things that you do.

You know, it's good to surround yourself with experts at things that you're not good at.

Sure.

So that you can learn from them versus just surrounding yourself in an echo chamber, which I see so many people do.

They're surrounded by really successful people, but they're all really good at the same things.

And so you're not learning, you're not evolving, you're not changing, you're not growing.

You're just kind of, like, stuck in this stagnant area versus, like, being surrounded by people that.

That are.

Have different viewpoints than you, that have different expertise than you do.

And so that way you're able to kind of, like, leverage those connections.

You're able to, you know, shamelessly get advice from them and to get help.

And, you know, because it's.

It's.

None of us would be here without someone else helping us along the way.

And I think so many people forget that.

It's like, what's the worst thing that can happen?

They can say no.

So put yourself out there.

Don't get stuck in that idea of, like, I'm not ready.

I'm not worthy.

Go for it.

Ask, pursue, fail in order to succeed.

That was perfect.

We speak a lot about ask, ask.

Because if they say no, you're in the same exact spot.

I love that last question.

What does style mean to you?

I thought this was going to be, like, the first question.

So it's interesting if the last question.

I think, like, style is the culmination.

It's a culmination of a lot of things, and I love the fact that you push the boundary because people hear style and they think of clothing and design and wardrobe and all of those things, but it's like style is so much more.

Style is your identity.

It's your voice, it's your values, it's your beliefs, it's the way you carry yourself, it's the people you surround yourself with, it's the company you keep, it's that energy that you project out there.

It's so many of those things.

And a culmination of all of it coming together, I think then helps help create and define your style.

Yeah, I love that.

And I purposefully ask it last because people's answers are different at the beginning to the end, once you start talking about it.

And same with listening.

Once you start hearing, oh, style is way more than oh, cooking is a style and that leads to success.

It's once you start hearing that, you think a lot differently about style.

So it's going to be at the end of every, every single episode.

Well, thank you so much.

This has been a fantastic conversation.

It was an absolute pleasure having Joe on the show.

I know you all enjoyed it too.

His story is fun and inspiring and highlights how embracing one's unique style and passion can lead to remarkable success to our listeners.

Be sure to follow Chef Joe Sasto on social media and check out his latest creation, Tontos Puffed pasta Chips, so you can experience his innovative culinary style firsthand.

Links to follow Joe and try Tontos are in the show.

Notes and Description if you enjoyed this episode, please like it, subscribe it, leave a review, do all the things we're going to continue the conversation with Joe in an exclusive bonus episode, so go to Hosta Style show page or visit hostastyle.com for access to that bonus content, behind the scenes happenings and more.

Thank you for tuning in to House of Style.

And until next time, remember, style isn't in your wardrobe, it's in.